Episode 26 – No Snek, No Bee


In this episode, we cover chapters 15-17 of Shadow of Night. Cait and Jen travel back to England with Diana and Matthew at the beginning of Section III, where hijinks of snakes, bees, and pregnancy ensue. Join the conversation in our Facebook group, the Chamomile & Clove Clovers, or e-mail us at chamomileandclovecast@gmail.com.

Download the episode here.

Thank you for listening!


Jen and Cait

P.S. Snek


All Souls Con, Uncategorized

Our All Souls Con 2018 Adventure – Part II

BOSS LADY. *heart eyes*

Are you ready for more goodness from All Souls Con? I thought so!

I would be lying if I pretended that I woke up on the day of our presentation feeling anything but nervous. I talk in front of people for a living, but, to be perfectly honest, I don’t know that the people I talk to all the time are nearly as invested in my work as y’all are invested in the All Souls Trilogy. True story.

Accordingly, the early morning followed a pattern I would like to call primp read caffeinate hyperventilate. Because I was losing my mind, we missed the first panel on The World of All Souls. If you were wondering, Jen was cool as a cucumber — I think it was that magnificent striped romper she chose as her presentation outfit.


And then, suddenly, and without warning, it was time to go. We mic’d up, took the stage, and had a blast. You can find the slides for our presentation here. We’ll post the video of the recorded lecture as soon as it’s available to the public. It was grand.

I admit, I love presenting. I love it almost no matter what I am talking about and no matter to whom I am speaking. This experience, though? Something else. I got such a thrill from seeing y’all nod or shake your heads when you heard something you liked (or didn’t — that’s cool, too). I loved your thoughtful, insightful questions.

like a fish
Me, imitating a grouper.

I loved the hum of energy generated by three hundred people thinking about their favorite books. It was INCREDIBLE. It was powerful and kind and inspiring and I absolutely hope to do it again next year, if y’all are up for it.

In the afternoon, we enjoyed two killer panels — one by Dr. Shelli Carter on biology and genetics in the AST and one by Dr. Stephenie McGucken on art history in the AST. Both were fantastic — precisely the kind of smart, engaging lectures I wanted. Again, highly recommended once they hit the internet. You should follow those ladies on Twitter for maximum smarts.

Dr. Carter, blowing my mind.

Later, Stephenie showed me and Shelli how to make RED PIGMENT FROM BUGS. Yes. She poured out the little cochineal bugs and crushed them with a wine glass to make red powder.

Dr. McGucken talking about Hieronymus Bosch, who drew fish people. For reasons.

When she poured water over the crushed insects, the paper bloomed with this wonderful blue-toned red — the same red used to dye the coats of the British infantry during the Revolution!

Okay. Admittedly, y’all might not find crushed bugs as entertaining as I do. Carry on.

In the space between presentations, I caught up with Amy Reynolds, our very own Mary Sidney, and begged her to consider a talk next year on costuming and visual language in the All Souls Trilogy. I strongly encourage y’all to take a really close look at this incredible costume — all handmade, including the alchemical petticoat and purse. As Amy told me, the only thing she didn’t make by hand was the fan dangling from her waistband. What an incredible project — I can’t wait to see what she does next year!

Later in the afternoon, Deb gave a really inspiring talk on readers and reading in the AST. She challenged us to think about our earliest reading memories and to imagine what her characters were reading at important moments in their lives. Marcus, for instance, carried a battered copy of Thomas Paine’s Common Sense in his pocket throughout the Revolution. I suspect we’ll hear far more about that when Time’s Convert comes out next month.

As usual, the Boss Lady was nothing short of lovely, gracious, and warm. She answered countless questions with grace and heart — and we are very lucky to have her.

I was very pleased to discover that the con included cupcakes — specifically, these little beauties with mini sugar replicas of Deb’s books.


At the close of the con, Jen and I stood in line to have our copies of The World of All Souls signed by Deb and the crew. While in line, we caught up with friends, including the lovely Grega (who made the stunning silk scarves pictured below) and Friend of the Show/Clover Michelle!


Then, we got to spend some time with Deb, which was super lovely. She couldn’t be kinder, more generous, or more encouraging. My heart eyes were PRETTY BIG at the start of the con, but they’ve only gotten bigger.

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I’d also love to give a shout out to the lovely ladies of The World of All Souls who made that incredible book possible. Colleen kept us entertained all weekend with her hilarious doodles in the green room and on the signing tables.

All in all, the con was an extraordinary experience and we hope that we’ll be able to make it to the UNITED KINGDOM (!!) for next year’s events. Keep your eyes on @AllSoulsCon on Twitter and AllSoulsCon.org for more announcements.

We’ll be taking follow-up questions for our convention recap episode until SUNDAY, 19 AUGUST 2018. As usual, you can post them to our Facebook group or e-mail us at chamomileandclovecast@gmail.com.

Thank you to everyone who made All Souls Con a success this year — we were so pleased to be included and can’t wait to see everyone again soon!



All Souls Con, Uncategorized

Our All Souls Con 2018 Adventure – Part I

Jen (L) and Cait (R) as twinsies at the All Souls Happy Hour!

Hello, Clovers!

We hope this finds you well and recovering from an incredible weekend at All Souls Con. It was incredible to see so many fans of the AST together in the same place at the same time. We’re overwhelmed by the positive and encouraging responses to our panel and our podcast — we couldn’t be more grateful or more excited for the growth of the fandom and our continued journey through the books. We’re so very glad to have you on board and can’t wait to pick through the rest of Shadow of Night with you. BUT FIRST. How about we recap some of the highlights of ASC2018?

As many of you know, this was the first time that we met in person. We were both a bit nervous, but we have been podcasting together for almost two years at this point…

Reading Terminal Market

we must be a little bit compatible, right? RIGHT. We get along swimmingly. Neither of us has any weird roommate habits. We have similar taste in wine. We like to walk places. We brought the same book for Deb to sign. Perfect.

On our first night in Philadelphia, we ran through our presentation with Jennifer and met some old friends for dinner at a beautiful little BYO called Melograno near Rittenhouse Square. After consuming all of the pasta and a fair bit of the wine and some gelato, we got a bit of beauty rest to prepare for our All Souls Con debut.

First off, the Science History Institute was absolutely killer. It was a great venue with fantastic exhibits on alchemy and chemistry and art and textiles and it’s well worth a visit the next time you’re in Philly. The conference center was beautiful, spacious, and well-appointed and they treated us beautifully.

We especially loved the opportunity to check out some miscellany from the Othmer Library, including this copy of the Malleus Maleficarum and Olric the mammoth library cart.

The team at Bad Wolf generously loaned some props from the TV show for our perusal, including these killer Congregation books and Peter Knox’s petrosphere. As we all know, this also began Cait’s in-person love affair with THE COAT.

You’ll see it on screen, you’ll see it in our Twitter feed, and you might have noticed when ADOWTV trolled Cait very gently about her threat to steal said coat off the mannequin. It’s a super cool garment, you guys.

We sat down in a PACKED auditorium for the afternoon session to hear the first panel, a discussion of the TV adaptation given by the great folks at Bad Wolf and Sundance Now. We saw a wonderful screening of behind-the-scenes footage, to include interviews with Teresa Palmer, Matthew Goode, and Alex Kingston. Then, you guys, they brought out the big guns. If you haven’t seen it, watch Deb’s video of THE MOMENT.

In case you were wondering, this is the face you make right before you see a WORLD PREMIERE OF THE TV SHOW YOU’VE BEEN DYING TO SEE.

And y’all.

It was magnificent.

There was laughter and there were tears and goosebumps and there was, deep in our hearts, the most delightful feeling that they got it right . We wish we could say more, but we promised (like, super promised) that we wouldn’t. We just have to tell you that it couldn’t be prettier or more faithful in spirit to the source material. We gushed about adaptive choices and settings and lighting during the happy hour and generally celebrated the beauty of the first episode and the incredible privilege of being amongst the first to see it.

After the premiere, we had a super-fun interactive panel with the ladies of Daemons Discuss about found family in the All Souls Trilogy.

The Daemons

Y’all, they’re just as fun and funny in person as they are on their podcast. If you don’t listen to them already, get on board!

We finished the day with a lovely cocktail hour on the patio of the Science History Institute–we met old fans, new fans, and All Souls fans from all around the world. There was plenty of camaraderie and (much to Cait’s delight) plenty of rose. We had an absolutely killer time catching up with people and looking at all of the fun All Souls swag. It was a great social opportunity and a fabulous way to kick off a full day of fun on Saturday! What was your favorite part about the Friday of All Souls con? Let us know in our Facebook group, the Chamomile & Clove Clovers!

Stay tuned for the Saturday recap… coming soon!



Podcast, Uncategorized

Episode 25 – Partyfamilias


Annie Spratt

You guys.

We’re coming off an incredible weekend at All Souls Con 2018, filled with friends and laughter and All Souls goodies. We had such an incredible time and hope to attend next year’s con in the U.K.! Thanks so much to everyone who attended our panel or asked us questions — we were blown away by your thoughtfulness and enthusiasm. If you haven’t had enough All Souls for one weekend, we still have one more trick up our sleeves.

In Episode 25, we wrap up the discussion of Section II of Shadow of Night by celebrating Matthew and Diana’s THIRD and MOST EFFECTIVE wedding. It’s light and wonderful and then there’s naughty time and things go a bit off the rails. Join the conversation in our Facebook group, the Chamomile & Clove Clovers, or e-mail us at chamomileandclovecast@gmail.com.

Download the episode here.

Thanks for being our people.


Cait and Jen

All Souls Con, Uncategorized

Countdown to All Souls Con – Our Very Favorite Thing about the All Souls Trilogy

Yeshi Kangrang


We’ve officially arrived in Philadelphia and we’re ready to start our enthusiastic coverage of All Souls Con 2018. We’ll be updating you from our Facebook page and Twitter feed and keeping you abreast of all the fun things we’re doing — panels! Drinks! Merchandise! Tea! New people!

Before that, though, we wanted to take a moment to say that our absolute favorite thing about the All Souls Trilogy is……. you.

Not to get sappy, or anything, but we couldn’t do this without you. We love your laughter, your deep thoughts, your appreciation, your participation in our silly polls — we couldn’t be happier with this little project of ours if we tried. Thank you for being a Clover and for being a part of this incredible fandom.

NOW. Let’s get this show on the road. See you tomorrow!

Have thoughts and questions for the con? E-mail us at chamomileandclovecast@gmail.com, send us a message via Twitter @chamomilenclove, or send us a Facebook message!

There are still online passes available for All Souls Con 2018. Buy a pass and you’ll see us present on Saturday, August 11, with the lovely Jennifer Covel!


Cait and Jen